Joshua, I think God did it for us but Jesus was the only one capable of carrying it out for us so we receive the benefit by proxy, through faith. Just my take on it at 7:30am
As much as we ought not to be self-centered in our Christianity, I don't think it should be viewed as ultimately for God because it minimizes how God WANTS us, and Jesus was the only way. It's a marriage of God bringing light to who He is, and Him madly loving us.
I'd agree with your thinking if a few words were changed:"God did not ELECT us. He ELECTED his son. We do not have eternal life cause God CHOSE 'us.' Christ WAS CHOSEN and we are included in him. (if we are in Christ)"But i agree with kris & steph that He elected Jesus for the purpose of reaching us.
I don't agree with all of Matthew's opinion, but that's okay. The whole chosen thing seems a little sketchy to me (Let's send out our ninjas to fight each other!)
I agree that Christ was chosen; through Him we become the chosen and any benefit or gift of salvation we have is in fact IN Christ. He does not give us an independent impartation of salvation: in Him is salvation and He gives us Himself. I like your wording Matthew.Everything belongs to us because we belong to Christ and He belongs to God (1 Cor 3:22-3). i think that fits in somehow :)
it's NOT okay stephanie joy. but i'll have to get some ninjas first, i ran out last week.Galatians 3 has shaped my thinking in this area, especially the following:The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is ChristTherefore, I believe Christ IS (as an individual) what Israel never became (as a nation). He is the true Israelite.Later in Galatians 3 we are told:If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.Since Christ is the recipiant of the promises, we only receive them if we belong to Christ (are "in" Christ).Obviously, Scripture words things better than I do
I don't know what the original greek text says and I guess this is what is important, but seed can be singular or plural....seeds isn't a word.
yeah, that's why paul clarifies that it should be taken in the singular sensewhen i read it in genesis, my first inclication is to take it in the plural. and for that reason, i'm thankful for paul
thanks Matt for the insight. I'm gonna read Galatians today and internalize chapter 3. oh yeah and i realized that we do say sees sometimes. guess i'm the one that doesn't talk real 'good'
Oh good, I'm glad YOU ran out of ninjas, because I DIDN'T!!! Going back to the original post, I think it's funny how Sir Jorsh loaded so much meaning into the word "stuff". I think the word just got a little more holy!and Matt, I agree that we receive God's promises through Christ...you know what, I thinkw e might all agree now that I think of it, but perhaps we're expressing it differently. When I originally read Sir Jorsh's statement, it sounded like "God didn't save us because He loves us, but because He loves His Son (which that in itself would be a weird thought considering the Trinity...weird meaning I have no idea how anyone could humanly understand that). But I guess that could be true because Jesus is our Great High Priest, and He pleads our case. But still, I believe that we were on God's mind, and He wanted to save US. Does my rambling even bring any clarity???:-) I'm bsaically having a discussion with myself.
i agree that we agreeyou never went to bbc did you? b/c i want to add you to my list, but i'm a perfectionist and only bethany people are allowed.
I visited Bethany...does that count? I am an IWU-VIAN!!!
Josh-I hung out at your house last night in Pennsylvania with Testify.Your parents are AMAZING!!!!!I wanted to take them with us :)They miss you so much,but they took care of us really well.Your house is gorgeous too!We're praying for you!
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